B2B Sales Transformation at Scale

Dheeraj Prasad: Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening to all the viewers on Nytro.ai B2B sales insights. This is your host Dheeraj Prasad. And I have Amir, who is the CEO at CloudTask, on my show today. And what really intrigued me when I met Amir first time virtually was about his mission statement, which I read out for you to start with. He's on a mission to help 10,000 businesses get work done better, faster and cheaper from anywhere. And that's a very profound vision, Amir.

Amir Reiter: Ironically, though actually, that's actually the mission statement for SaaSmetrics.com, another company open. So I have to fix that. The three companies that I own, CloudTask, which is the Airbnb of outsourced SDRs, salestransformationnow.com, is where we match technology, people and process and SaaS metrics all have the context to your sales product, and all to help people work faster, cheaper, more efficient from anywhere. So I gotta update that mission statement because it's not the CloudTask, but it still works.

Dheeraj Prasad: Awesome. Absolutely. And definitely, it resonates a lot, Amir. Talk a little more about how do you live this on a day-to-day basis as CEO of the company and how are you looking to take this company in that way forward?

Amir Reiter: Well, as I mentioned, multiple brands, but we want to talk about CloudTask, which is the Airbnb house SDRs. One of our biggest pivots was becoming from going from a service company. Right people would hire SDRs. We would hire them to imagine to train them, right? What we found was that scaling that at a similar size 250 Plus SDRs almost becomes the same challenge as to why people should outsource SDRs, to begin with, right. And really looking at what we wanted to do, we wanted to actually start servicing outsourced STR companies, similar to how Airbnb services homeowners or property renters, right, because their assets are their SDRs. Right, so the more they can train their SDR as your product with multiple products in space, the more valuable their process, their assets are when they have to actually deal with customers, negotiating rates, promising deal data playbooks, postfire scale, so now we're doing that we're really focusing on the what customers have an expectation if it's realistic or not because we're powering every SDR company, we don't need to sell them, we could just listen. The prices here at this SDR company are top here. Here are the pros and cons, right. And this way, we're able to focus on the data and the content, right. And making sure that if somebody when SDR was to execute what we call to reach and frequency of the message, it would be on-brand. And I had a lot of contexts, I think to your product, where it's by practicing and executing a, what's called a pitch, you can get repeal processes and it's probably much more accurate than you know you're A players are harder to duplicate, it's a little bit easier to scale, a system of your B players can produce more results by getting the support because that's easier to produce versus in A player who's like, I don't need coaching training, I just crush it right. But like I know, it's fine. It's great. Get the guys to follow the process to scale. Right. So that's kind of where we're doing our the outsourced every bit of outsourced SDRs on that.

Dheeraj Prasad: Very interesting. Amir, starting off, is really understanding as to what are the problems and challenges that SDRs are already facing today. You know, given.

Amir Reiter: I can go over 7000 problems and obviously exaggerating. There are not 7000 problems. But let's start from the top right. Number One problem is that leadership will raise money with a plan. And that plan always has them burning cash because they need to, because that's what happened to growth. But then they want an ROI when they hire SDRs. And they want an ROI in six months when their sales cycle is nine months. So they shoot themselves in the foot because they feel that because they're spending money on a vendor versus an employee, which really is just the taxes for your government. Right? They feel that all of a sudden, the math that they put on their worksheet doesn't really equate to how they grew up, right. So I think they're number one. It's leadership's not understanding that the way they raise money is the way they need to go to market, right or else, you're gonna make any mistake number one, it's also not realizing that if you're going to pay Google for a click, you're going to do SEO for clicks. They put a $0 value on clicks generated by SDRs. And this is a big problem because if you don't have brand awareness, and you don't have a reputation, you're calling strangers, your conversion cycle will be longer. If I right now, I'm going to drop for Salesforce, and I call 100 People who all know about Salesforce. They all heard about Salesforce. It's easier for me to convert it right because they're in the funnel. So people don't understand they put a value and are willing to pay Google they're willing to pay Facebook. They're willing to pay the billion-dollar companies for clicks, but they put zero value on clicks. So that's problem number two. Now that problem is exacerbated by the fact that companies do not create separate landing pages for SDR work, right? So they can track the chats, and they can track the glide. And so if I'm an SDR, now I'm passionate about Omnichannel as you should be, right? And let's just say that, you know, I call you and you're like me or eff off that time and you're fighting with your wife, right? But you go to CloudTask, and you download an e-book. Marketing wants credit because everyone's fighting for budget, right? So calling it marketing and sales is also a problem. It should just be the revenue department, right? So I think the big thing is that companies don't go one step further. Build a landing page on Click Funnels anything, right? Just to say, because if your SDR target is 15 meetings, and somebody gets two on the phone, one on email, but 17, click on the website that has served me fine. But he actually crushed your goal. That's probably a four. Right? I can keep going. I'm gonna keep going. Flop rolls.

Dheeraj Prasad: Yeah. But I think you hit the key ones very, very well, Amir. I really like the way that you related some of the key challenges that no SDRs really face here. We talked very briefly about practice. And, you know, I wanted to sort of hearing and understand a little better in terms of how do you think the aspect of practice can help to reduce the ramp-up time to get reps productive much faster, as they are, you know, sort of working.

Amir Reiter: The bottom line is, we don't think we know. It will improve. The biggest problem and I'll call it out, is that people will buy technologies like yours, Chorus, Gong, you name it, and they will not invest in using it properly. If you have a Ferrari and you leave it in the garage, you are not going to win any races. So we already know that practice makes you better, right? And anything you want to do, you want to be good at basketball, you're taking 1000s of free throws, you want to be good at sales, you're recording 1000s of demos. So we know that it's going to get people to speed. I think it's more of a discipline problem for the consumer. So I can almost rephrase that question to you. Right, you know, your problem probably works, right? Yeah. How do you people who buy it and use it properly? That's the trick.

Dheeraj Prasad: Yeah, absolutely. And I think a lot of that what we have seen, Amir is really about how much time are we as leaders and managers looking to spend on coaching. And that ties very well because practice coaching is something which we have seen some really tangible results coming out when reps actually go out and get coached primarily in terms of how the sales conversations need to go, how do they do objection handling, and they don't want to test it out in real-life scenarios with customers. So that's one of the learnings that we have really seen, you know, which really helps to accelerate revenue for businesses who are focused on building coaching as a key leadership priority across the organization as well.

Amir Reiter: Why don't you have a problem where smaller businesses series ABC sell 100 million, don't have the experience or manpower to do it. And then the larger billion-dollar companies can get away with sucking and making a million dollars. And that's kind of the problem where they can get away with it. Right? They do. I've seen it all. On huge basket companies, their closing rates are far fewer than ours. But if you tell them to go get some coaching software, they won't do it because they're so rich. Right. So I see that gap in the market. Right. And I'm hoping that, um, I don't think, you know, I think that enterprise will buy these kinds of technologies, I don't think we'll be able to execute it the right way. But I think there's probably hope for the sub 100 million dollar companies to really kind of grasp that. That's kind of obvious why you see the space growing. It is important.

Dheeraj Prasad: Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, we definitely have been seeing something which is related to a much safer environment for reps to practice. Because, you know, some of the live conversations-based coachings is excellent, but it's still in the live format. And what is really important for reps is to practice this in their own safe zone and keep getting better at it. And it's what we also call this as more of a self-coaching in terms of, you know, how do I practice myself in the mirror, which is like the most?

Amir Reiter: Yeah, you know, kind of like kidding. All right. Yeah, that's what you want to practice by yourself, the Mirror Mirror analogy.

Dheeraj Prasad: Exactly. So that's the aspect that we bring in, which is more about, hey, practices in the offline is just exactly how one would look at one oneself in the mirror and practice in one's conversation or a pitch.

Amir Reiter: Yeah, one thing that obviously is very clear to me when I listen to recordings like this or meetings is that I talk really fast, right? So you know, when I pull up some of the statistics, I just blow through the roof. And I think that's that mirror analogy where it's like, you kind of are creating the test to see your own test, and like someone's telling you and you're like, oh, yeah, I am speaking fast. Right. So I like that analogy. It's great. You know, for me, I almost want to ask you the questions like right now, what do you see? What do you see as the biggest challenge with people hiring SDRs? And where they're failing? I'm just kind of want to throw that same question at you. Because I'm curious to hear your point of view, since you're, you know, obviously helping them with technology. While I'm, you know, running the programs. So I'd love to see your perspective.

Dheeraj Prasad: Yeah, I sort of outline this is primarily threefold here, Amir, that we see. The first one is really about starting off with the managers themselves, where they really communicate the value of the technology because it should not be like one more shiny little object which is coming up and it does not really tub. So the commitment of the manager to spend time and leverage technology in the whole sales coaching process, and I'm not necessarily looking at something which is purely number driven. And the sale is a number-driven business for sure.

Amir Reiter: But it's an opportunity to almost create that competitive commissioned environment and coaching, meaning that like if a rep shows X amount of based increases, the rep gets a commission or is that maybe because of what I'm wondering is, in order to be a really good coach, in my opinion, you need to be a really good player. Now, I could be wrong, right? But when I see coaches that are scared to call the phones, that kind of scares me a little bit, right? Do you think that's the issue or like kind of maybe that like, you want to get somebody who's a sales guys competitive to coach them, they're like, I don't make enough money? And maybe it's actually more profitable to incentivize them to coach. Do you think that's an opportunity to be evil? Have you seen that.

Dheeraj Prasad: Interesting line of thought? Not really, because, you know, it is not really about coaching. It cannot be incentivized coaching comes from something which is an internal commitment towards one's people. And this is generic come here. I mean, I've seen this just not in sales in other roles as well, because they think and believe that they are up. They are a people leader. And incentives are good for short-term gains, but for a long-term opportunity. You know, I think it's all a mental mindset in terms of.

Amir Reiter: And I just bring it up because it's like, very few people know, to coach right, and to do this sometimes, consulting agencies where they're doing very well financially. So I'm almost like, how's that talent pool look, right? Like, who's teaching people to be coaches, you know, like, where coaches coming from where wherever, where are we making?

Dheeraj Prasad: So that is a lot of buzzes right now in terms of sales, coaching, etc. So there are professional coaches.

Amir Reiter: I want to know the source. Where’s the source? Where are they being produced? If you're gonna go right now, you're gonna go find a coach. We’re gonna find hiring and firing: question, same question from New York.

Dheeraj Prasad: Yeah, absolutely. So I think, you know, I see a lot of those coaching DNA in within organizations, it's just about identifying some of those people who understand some of the challenges and can relate the context which they are going through, especially the reps that, who are going through and help them to get better at what they do. So there are there some really good coaches that I see, you know, who are leaders, and they practice that, and it's not very difficult.

Amir Reiter: They are already hired. Everybody we know is already hired. I think that's the problem. I think we're not producing. I think we're not producing coaches and trainers, and they're too quick to become CEOs, consultants, and there's no real way to keep them in that middle zone. I can't. I am friends with every consultant and trainer. I refer to the business every day. I have yet to find like when you look at a company like you know, the enterprise has a very good reputation for producing great salespeople, B2B copiers like there are certain industries that produce certain things, right? Like if somebody works at Deloitte or something, right, that, like their start, right? Like, I don't know where it is when it comes to coaching. And I think that if we could find or create that center of excellence, I think that there'll be more drivers for your tech, right?

Dheeraj Prasad: Yeah, absolutely. So interestingly, there is a marketplace where there is a focus on building more coaches. I mean, there are companies like BetterUp. I’m sure you're familiar with them as well, where they are bringing in experts who understand coaching and coming into the marketplace as well. So, you know, they lookout for people who want to get coached. And these are the experts or the people who have the coaching, mindset and commitment to come and render the services as well. So some of those trends that I'm also seeing right now, and some areas that we are working on as well.

Amir Reiter: You know, what I think should be done. In the meantime, I think that sales consulting organizations need to extend coaching services that they can do hourly so that someone can log into technology like yours, almost like how a lot of companies find it very easy to outsource your bookkeeping, right. And I see that as an opportunity. I work with a coach named Matt Wallach out of sales up so this sentence excels I can't pronounce well, and I worked with him very partially coaching my reps, one on one, creating cards, it was effective because sometimes it's also not easy to have a full-time coach, because you might be so busy with demos and meetings that they also need a little bit of runway to coach, right. So like effectively, like one full-time coach might be able to work with 30 reps. So now we have five reps. Sometimes you need a coach, but not a full-time one. So that's a big opportunity for the J Borrows you know, factory, it's you know, all these coachings and consulting, it's a great opportunity for them. I think there should be a lot more consultants that are partnering with technologies like yours. Selling it right now, they have software coming revenue and using it right. And that's what I'm pushing that actually. I’m that's kind of the workspace I'm living in because a lot of this technology works a lot better with a professional, right. And a lot of companies are like that. I’m gonna build professionals if they were staying at companies long enough to actually make that investment. But if you look at the stats, they're not, so you're crazy. Because statistically speaking, it's like ouch sorry, failure, coming into something 50% failure rate. It's pretty scary. Right? So hired SDR 1.2 years, he's gone best-case scenario, it's not easy to invest in that right. And that also brings back the thing like, you know, I'm an outsourced SDR organization and marketplace, you know, perhaps you have an opportunity to kind of put these tools to professional hands. And that's kind of almost what I'm thinking is gonna happen. I think the market with all the sales and marketing technology. It’s out there. I think there's a push for more done for your service. And it's kind of a thing.

Dheeraj Prasad: Yeah, that's absolutely, that's very, very interesting. And we are seeing some of those walls getting pulled down, you know, specifically in the sales education space. Yeah. Where we have seen traditionally that some of the business schools have really not invested in terms of sales education is a curriculum.

Amir Reiter: What I want University has a Sales degree in the University of Florida and I know a girl who went there started making half a million dollars to work on a good career. Name's Kelly Land and she worked with NetSuite. Not done anymore. Crazy. Lots of art degrees and communication degrees and creative degrees. Learn a lot of paychecks to pay them, but very few degrees for salaries that are high. The same paradox that our teachers get paid the lowest right.

Dheeraj Prasad: Absolutely it is. But I mean, I must say that this is a profession, which is going to truly transform itself and it's already doing so right now, over the next few years, and the speed at which the transformation is going to happen in this profession would not have been ever thought of in you know, before the pandemic so in many ways the pandemic has actually accelerated the whole transformation where you know, the expectation that the people in the sales profession had, and also in terms of how buyers looked at salespeople is going to be completely from a different lens.

Amir Reiter: If you use the word sales is implying that you're conning somebody until I feel and I'm a sales guy, meaning that like I have the skill set to do that I actually used to sell vacuums for over $3,000 Each and I was so good at it that I had to quit, because I felt bad, right? I don't think I think it's more like doctors if you're really fixing problems, right? Why do we call a doctor a doctor? Why because they're fixing an animal's made that's alive, a business alive. We don't call it a doctor. You know, that's just an entity. It’s a person. So you know when I really truly listen to somebody and I tell them the truth about how I feel based on the money I've lost feel that I'm helping somebody and then the sale really becomes more like a discussion and teamwork and I love that. You know, sell me something where it's like three people selling. Okay, last eliminate and I'm like, You know what? I bought it from you because you just made me laugh, right? And I'm saying that maybe that's sales, but If you're really not fixing a problem and customer focus, the word sales are going to go away. And that's why people stay away from the sales industry. Right? They think of it as these pushy salespeople, if they thought of it as people helping people when they saw all the people who now have jobs because of what they help somebody with, and all the efficiency be like standing tall, right? But they get a rejection, they're like, I'm just annoying people. Well, you know, Americans were annoying the British, we want to revolt. And we like this. It's like, you're always gonna have to rub someone the wrong way to get something done normally. Right? We've made most of our advancements during the war. So it's, it's like a normal human way of growth. It's all around us. People don't act like that in their profession. That's kind of why it's easy to compete against them. Right. A lot of limiting factors out there. So yeah, I'm sorry for the tangent.

Dheeraj Prasad: Absolutely, I agree. So, Amir, my last question for today's talk show primarily is how do you see this profession to help customers, what we call today's traditional sales, transform itself in the next five years, say by 2025? How do you see this profession?

Amir Reiter: I see channel affiliate partnerships and professionals selling the more same way that the big box offices in the states like Home Depot are crushing it because they're at the size where a mom and pop shop just can't compete? They don't have the space, you know? And I think it's the same thing. I think that we're going to see a pull to companies having less direct employees and working more with organizations that had the term outsource, but the term outsourcing is bullshit, right? Because unless I have the same DNA as you on Sloan, what that I'm in trouble, right? Like, and I'm like, it's like a trick. It's a political thing, right? And a lot of times, it was just politically wise, like they're taking jobs away and outsourcing India, they're doing this well, do people know that most call centers are in America, right? Like there are 1000s of them, right? They have these perceived notions. And in reality, I think those will go away because we're all working remotely. So now, if anything, you're working with a company that has an insurance policy and backup plans, right? So it's like, are you really getting less or you're getting more, right? And I think people are starting to realize that and they start to realize that well, what's that replacing the job, because now sort of hiring SDRs or hiring coach or trainer, I can get an outsourced SDR company that works with this technology that works with professionals. And I get the revenue I want and the high quality and then I can hire more engineers to make my product better, right? You didn't get into this business to be in customer success, sales, and marketing. You got this business to help people, your tech, the more you have to do all these functions, the less you can build a product, right? If you could focus everything on your product and every day on the information and try to do people, you grow much faster. And I think that's kind of where we're going in the future.

Dheeraj Prasad: Absolutely. And that's how I also see the whole future of work completely getting transformed, where talent is going to be complete, you know, leveled and technology is going to be one of the key enablers to make that happen. It doesn't matter when somebody is a full-time person working with a company or in a distributed environment in the gig workforce, as we call it, so I completely concur with your thinking as well, Amir. Amir, thanks a lot. It's been wonderful talking to you about some extremely compelling thoughts and an interesting format. I must compliment you because most of my podcasts have been a one-way question and answer. Now, this is very interactive.

Amir Reiter: I actually made some meetings, but we talked to so and I on sold probably like a few grand a stock,, but I was still focused. So while I still got to kind of release my energy on the channel touching. So thank you, man. Appreciate it.

Dheeraj Prasad: Thank you so much, Amir.